In Episode 63 of So you want to be a writer: Australian writers on #WhereIWrite, the ethics of branded content marketing, famous authors who were rejected by publishers, the superpower all published writers have (and you can have too!), Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner on art, a street map made up of book titles, everything you wanted to know about blogging as a career, the book “Who said that first? The curious origins of common words and phrases” by Max Cryer, Writer in Residence Lindsey Kelk, how to back up your writing, and more!
Writer in Residence Lindsey grew up in the UK, but now calls another two-lettered place her home; LA.
When she isn’t writing, reading, listening to music or watching more TV than is healthy, Lindsey likes to wear shoes, shop for shoes and judge the shoes of others.
She has written ten novels, including the super popular ‘I Heart’ series, and her latest book, Always the Bridesmaid, was released in May, 2015.
You could win a copy of Lindsey's latest book by entering our giveaway.
Lindsey Kelk is a best-selling British chick lit author based in the United States who used to be an editor of children’s books, the author of ten novels and two short stories to date. She is an avid user of social media and fittingly a lover of shoes. Her latest book, Always the Bridesmaid is out now.
Hi, Lindsey!
Lindsey
Hello.
Allison
Thank you so much for joining us from the other side of the world, that’s always very exciting for us.
Let’s start at the beginning, you were an editor of children’s books and then you began writing chick lit?
Lindsey
Yes.
Allison
What brought that on, how did that sort of happen?
Lindsey
I had always written, I’ve always written from being tiny. I was always writing stories when I was little, and studied a little bit, got an English degree and did some writing with that and was soundly put of pursuing it as a career by my tutor.
Allison
Oh?
Lindsey
Yeah, he was amazing. He was a genuinely fantastic writing tutor, but he was very, very realistic and quite cynical at the time I think, and was just trying to knock some realism into his 20-something, 19-20 year old students who all thought they were going to go away and write the next great American novel in Nottingham, England.
We were sort of told, “You’re very, very lucky to make a living out of this, so maybe pursue other careers that have a writing element,” so I pursued editorial and that’s how I became a children’s book editor.
I did that for awhile and just wasn’t feeling fulfilled, which sounds a little bit pretentious, but I just wasn’t feeling that I got that — I had an itch that I needed to scratch. So, I started writing in my spare time and that’s how the first book came about.
Allison
You didn’t, as an editor of children’s books, start writing for children?
Lindsey
I didn’t. I had done quite a lot of ghost writing for children, and a lot of YA and movie novelizations and things like that. I didn’t sort of have a plan when I opened the laptop, I just sort of started writing and saw what came out.
It’s kind of a surprise, because I love YA, I’m obsessed with YA and I always thought that’s what, if I ever wrote anything, I thought it would be that. So, I was as surprised as anyone when it wasn’t… yeah, it just wasn’t a plan, it was just what happened. It was sort of my natural voice at the time.
Allison
You weren’t like a mad reader of chick lit at the time?
Lindsey
No, I’m pretty terrible. I don’t read terribly widely into my own genre, which I think is a blessing and a curse. Blessing because I get struck so badly with professional jealousy when I read something great I’m like, “Oh my god! I should never pick up a pen again.”
But, also it’s good because it means I don’t have that. Yeah, there’s so much great women’s fiction, chic lit, whatever you want to call it, out there right now. I feel like I’m not allowed near it. I feel like I can’t get close to it.
Allison
Stay in your own space.
Lindsey
Yeah, yeah. Stay where it’s safe.
Allison
How did that first publishing deal come about?
Lindsey
I went through the traditional routes, which now I guess aren’t traditional so much, because I wrote it in 2006/2007. It was early summer 2007 I went out with queries and I dutifully sent off my first three chapters to a bunch of agents. I went to the Writers’ and Authors’ Yearbook and looked for agents that I knew worked with writers that I felt were similar in tone, or at least in genre to what I had put together. I sent it out to so many people, and then received so many rejections, that it was a little bit scary. Even working in publishing, as I did and saw things getting rejected everyday, it was still pretty painful.
Allison
Character building is really painful, isn’t it?
Lindsey
Absolutely, character building, yeah. That’s why I say now, that feels like the worst part, because the first time you get rejected, it’s so not the worst part, it gets so much worse.
I sent it out, I did work with an agent for awhile, but she didn’t like the book that I had put out that I had sent to her. She just liked my writing style and I really felt strongly about the book. We agreed to not work together anymore, which was a pretty bold and scary move.
I was very lucky because I had worked in publishing for five years at that point, I gave the manuscript to a friend of mine that had worked in women’s fiction previously, she wasn’t working in it at the time. I just said, “Can you read this and recommend some agents to me, because I’m having a really hard time.”
And then the style of how these things happen, you know, it’s 95 percent luck as much as anything else, she passed it on to an editor friend of hers, because she couldn’t think of anyone. She thought maybe the editor would have better contacts for me, and the editor ended up being the person that signed it, because she liked to so much. She came to me directly and said, “Hey, you already work in publishing, you know how the contracts work, why don’t we just do a deal directly?”
The first deal I did without an agent, I did it myself.
Allison
Do you have an agent now?
Lindsey
I do, and I always add a caveat to that story, which is unless you have five years of — my job was very much acquisition and brand management, so I worked very intensively in contracts. If you don’t have that background I definitely recommend getting an agent from the beginning because it’s so complicated.
And you have books to write, you know? As a writer you have another area to worry about. If you can get that champion and that person to back you up from the beginning, an agent is so important to your career.
Allison
Beyond that knowledge of contracts and things, do you think you brought any other lessons learnt as a children’s book editor to your new career?
Lindsey
Yeah, definitely. I mean just having a background of the industry really helped because it helped me be more realistic about what could be achieved, what realities I might face, you know? Like, what the difficulties were, because I think there’s an element of it.
I had friends who had got books out and they’re just so excited and they don’t realize the number of books that are released each year, the role that marketing plays in the books. Now, social media, now downloads, digitals, self-publishing, there are so many different factors. You could have written the best book in the world, and there are a thousand factors out there that could change what happens to it. I had an insider look at that.
Also I think it helped me know what was coming, so I knew there would be an editorial process, which is very hard for a lot of first time writers, when they get their first editorial notes back and it’s like getting your homework back covered in red pen. You know? It’s like, “Oh my baby, my precious, precious manuscript.” Even though someone loved it and signed they still just obliterated it with red pen. It prepared me for that.
It prepared me for dealing with the cover stories and the cover art, because you very often don’t get a say in that at all. I knew that because I had come from a commercial publishing background, so I knew that the cover had a job to do. The cover wasn’t designed to please me, the cover was designed to sell a book. That’s often a hard lesson to learn as well, I think, for some people.
Allison
Very hard.
Lindsey
Yeah.
Allison
I need to ask you the dreaded chick lit question, because it’s a sort of term that many authors try to disassociate themselves from.
Lindsey
Yes.
Allison
And that many publishers will tell you is dead, “Chick lit is dead.”
Lindsey
Yeah.
Allison
And yet it sells its socks off.
Lindsey
Yes.
Allison
Why do you think this is the case? What is going on here?
Lindsey
I’ve been talking about this a lot lately.
Allison
I’m sure. Sorry.
Lindsey
No, I’m very keen to. I’m keen to because I think there’s such a current conversation about feminism and where women are and what’s happening and where we want to be. I think this is definitely a part of it, because what we’re talking about when we talk about chick lit, it’s used as a derogatory term. Nine times out of ten it is.
It’s reductive, it’s derogatory, it’s used to belittle the genre. It’s, “Oh, it’s chick lit… it’s silly, floppy chick lit.” No one says, “Oh my god, that’s chick lit. It’s amazing.” It’s very rarely used positively.
I don’t care. I write stories and I love to tell stories and what people want to call them is entirely up to them. The term chick lit was coined by a marketing team, you know?
Allison
Yeah.
Lindsey
The marketing team decides what cover to put on your book, and the cover to such a degree defines what genre your book is. I’ve had people insult me about my books because it has a pink cover with glitter on it. It’s, “So, your book must be terrible.” I’m like, “I didn’t design that cover.”
Allison
That’s interesting.
Lindsey
“You haven’t even opened it,” so I find that very interesting.
The whole chick lit thing, and even calling it women’s fiction now, you know, I take umbrage with it slightly because there’s no such thing as men’s fiction. We don’t call anything ‘men’s fiction.’ Are you calling it women’s fiction because I’m a woman and I wrote it, in which case that’s a terrible thing, because you shouldn’t define it by my gender. And, if you’re calling it women’s fiction because it has a predominately female audience, then that’s reductive, because we do have male readers and we do have all kinds of readers across the spectrum.
So, it seems… I just don’t think there is an alternative, because if I say to people, like, “Oh, I write romantic comedies,” they immediately counter with, “You write chic lit?”
Allison
Yeah.
Lindsey
I’m not ashamed of it. I know you’re going to reduce it and then I’m going to have to defend myself and then we’re in this awful place.
Allison
Yet, as we say, there it is selling its socks off.
Lindsey
Yeah.
Allison
And we had a conversation before we started here and I was saying how strong your brand was because of your covers. They are so strong.
Lindsey
Yeah, I don’t really understand why I, and all chick lit writers, have to either defend it or accept it as though it’s negative thing. I really wish we could find a place where everyone is comfortable with what they’re going to call it. It drives me crazy. No one is ashamed of writing sci-fi books, no one is ashamed of writing a thriller.
I was at a party recently and a girl was introducing me to another group of people, and she was like, “Oh, Lindsey writes romance novels,” and they were all like, “Oh my god!”
And I just stood there, I didn’t know what to say, because I don’t. In terms of Harlequin or Mills and Boon traditional romance novels, I don’t write that kind of book. But, at the same time so what if I did? Like, those books are awesome, they’re the highest selling books, the biggest selling book in the world.
Allison
In the world.
Lindsey
Yeah, and I just wanted to sort of — I genuinely didn’t know what to say, or do, which never happens. As you can tell I love to chat.
Allison
It’s interesting, because as an interviewer talking to you today as a chick lit author, I feel like I need to raise it as well. As if I didn’t raise it then would be — what would we talk about sort of thing.
Lindsey
Yeah.
Allison
You know, which is insane.
Lindsey
It seems crazy to me that there are just — and all of this talk right now of women — there’s been this whole movement towards women directors need to be more involved in film and people are trying to push women storytellers in movies.
You have the Leah Dunham and I think, is it Rose Byrne, started a new production company where they’re trying to push women directors and film writers and all of this stuff, or creators. We’re not doing anything about it in publishing where we’re still being ghetto-ised, and put in this awful pink fluffy corner where we’re supposed to defend ourselves and feel bad about it.
I just don’t understand it. That’s what I don’t get. It’s a hugely powerful group of women, that have been published by women, read by women, written by women, and yet we’re being constantly reduced. I don’t get it. I just don’t get it.
Allison
It’s interesting because I would say, with chick lit, we’re talking about strong voices, because the voice is what sells the story in so many ways.
Lindsey
Yeah.
Allison
Yeah, to be reducing those voices to pink and fluffy, I agree, is really disappointing.
Lindsey
It’s kind of sad. The conversation that I had as well with other women, which also confused me, I knew it was with two lawyers and a journalist, I was sort of there saying, “I’m an internationally best-selling…” I sold 1.5 million books, worldwide.
Allison
I hope you said that.
Lindsey
That’s the stupid thing, I didn’t, because I just didn’t know what to say. Afterwards I was relaying the story and my friend turned around and was like, “Well, I hope you said that!” “My god, I couldn’t…” because I was so blown away. “OK, you’re a lawyer, author, a journalist and that’s fantastic, but I sell 1.5 million books…” my spiel where I can hear my publicist giving my spiel. It’s crazy, it’s crazy.
Allison
And you love what you do, right?
Lindsey
I love what I do, I get to tell stories for a living. I mean… that’s insane! That’s crazy.
Allison
It is insane.
Let’s move onto cheery things.
If I’m a wannabe author of women’s fiction/chick lit/awesome stories, what should I be concentrating on? Is it the voice? Is that the most important thing to get right? How do I make my stories stand out?
Lindsey
For me, it’s definitely that. And for the other authors that I read and authors that I’m friendly with, the conversations that we have, that tends to be what we have found that has worked for us. Definitely for me that is what has worked for me.
I mean obviously in traditional romance publishing there are certain conventions that we’re asked to follow. I think that’s not the case anymore. I mean Always the Bridesmaid, that has just come out, it’s very far away from that. And, I feel like it’s actually quite far away from my previous books, to degree. I mean it’s a tiny step in the greater scheme of things. But, to me, it felt huge, because it was the story of a girl and her whole life. It’s not focused on the romance.
Allison
Yes, I agree.
Lindsey
And to be honest, in Always a Bridesmaid, for me, the romance was the least important part of it, to me. The story is about this girl and her two friends and why she cannot say ‘no’ and she cannot put herself first. And she doesn’t do it at work and she doesn’t do it in her relationships and she doesn’t do it with her friendships. I think that was something that was very — that was important to me, because that was happening with a lot of friends of mine. I just did it to myself at that party, like I couldn’t speak up for myself. I was her. We all do that, I think.
For me, definitely current chick lit that is working, the stuff that rises above that is great and that works and is loved, it has that strong voice, that strong character, it knows what it is talking about. It’s not just a damsel in distress that needs to be saved. There should be something in there that women can touch and see and say, “Yeah…” not just women. I just did it to myself. But, the readers can see and say, “Yes, this… yes, this…” If it’s one line or if it’s the whole story, there should be something in there that is so true to your reader that they can hold on to it and believe in it. I think that means a lot.
Allison
That’s great. Are you a plotter, or do you just simply start with an idea or a character and go forward? Or are you a scene-by-scene spreadsheet…
Lindsey
No, I’m terrible. I’m just terrified constantly, like hanging onto the laptop with my fingertips. I have no idea.
I have an idea, with Always a Bridesmaid it was the idea of this girl, and we talked about weddings and we talked and I said, “I don’t want to write a wedding book… Bridesmaids is a movie and it’s so perfect, I don’t want to do this.” And the more we talked about it, me and my agent, and a lot of my friends, and everyone was getting married. I was like, “You know what? It’s a relevant story and there’s a story to be told there, but I don’t know what it is yet.”
Then I had a conversation with a friend and she was telling me about a friend of hers who was getting divorced and she had another friend who was getting married, and it wasn’t the same as in the book where it’s the best friend, so it intensifies it all. But, she’s like, “Isn’t it crazy that we’re in a generation where that’s happening? Where your friends are getting married and divorced at the same time in their early 30s/late 20s.”
I was like, “Yeah, has that happened before? Has there been generations where that’s happening everyday now?” I feel like maybe it hasn’t, you know? Like, people have gotten divorced, obviously and have been getting married later, but now it’s so commonplace, it’s so everyday. “I don’t think I’ve read that story, I want to hear that story.” So, that’s how it came about.
Allison
The bridesmaid journal, was that a theme?
Lindsey
Well, it’s not. I have a fascination with these things.
Allison
I loved it.
Lindsey
I honestly find the fascinating. Actually, someone gave me a daily affirmation journal, and I was reading it and I was like, “This is so ridiculous.” Actually, I’m sure it’s amazing and I really hope it’s helped some people out there, but it helped me by just making me laugh my socks off.
I investigated and there are all of these different kinds of journals and there was a bridesmaid journal, and I didn’t buy it and look at it. Actually, the first note that I got on the book from my editor was, “I’m scared at how good you are at this. At how well you’ve written this.” I go, “I know, it’s amazing.”
Allison
You could put it out as a non-fiction supplement, perhaps, to the story.
Lindsey
There was actually a ton more bridesmaid journal stuff that we cut.
Allison
Oh I’m disappointed, I loved it.
Lindsey
I know. I was like, “This is so much fun!” And she just cut it. “You’re enjoying yourself, but just cut it.”
Allison
That actually brings me to the next question, do you know when a book is funny? Do you know when it’s funny? Or do you have to wait until it comes out to see if it works?
Lindsey
I usually know when I read through — proofreading. I’ll look at it and go, “That’s pretty funny.” But, I have no idea when I’m doing it. And, I tend to be like the more panicky I get, it’s actually really funny when I read it back, because I never read myself back, but if I do readings or if I talk to someone about it and they’re like, “Oh my god, that bit was so funny. That bit was so slapsticky.” I go, “Oh, I must have been panicking,” because when I panic I just immediately go to, “Let’s just do something really stupid and funny.”
Yeah, if I panic I just think if I can make people laugh when I’m panicking with the story, then that will distract them, which is ridiculous, but apparently it’s been working. So, we’ll just go with that.
Allison
I know from your blog that you had quite a difficult year last year while you were writing this book.
Lindsey
Yes.
Allison
It must be incredibly difficult to write a funny book when you’re not feeling particularly light-hearted. How did you go about working through that?
Lindsey
It was weird. I was just saying it was a tough year. My grandmother passed away in April and then my mom passed away in November, it was actually a week before my deadline when we lost my mom. She had been sick, she had breast cancer. She had been poorly for awhile, but it was very unexpected when it happened. It was all very quick, as these things often are.
Allison
Yeah.
Lindsey
And it was very tough, it was not easy. I did just sort of spend six or seven weeks just laid on the sofa staring at the TV not writing, not doing anything. My editor — she was amazing, but she would just send me emails saying, “Everything is fine, everything’s fine.”
I just sat looking at the laptop everyday thinking, “It’s not though, is it? Because we have a book out in May and it’s January and I haven’t opened the laptop and it’s not done.” God knows how it happened, and god knows what magic we worked. Harper Collins was incredibly, because we got the book finished and we got it out.
Allison
Yeah, it’s amazing.
Lindsey
Yeah, it was very strange. I definitely, when I write I — I do know other people have said this, I’m not completely insane, but I will just sort of go into it for 12 hours and…
Allison
Wow.
Lindsey
Once I am into the writing I find it really hard to come out.
Allison
Right.
Lindsey
I definitely go into sort of a zone, I guess, which sounds weird, which is why when I read it back I don’t remember having written it. I’m like, “Oh yeah, that’s really funny.”
Allison
Someone else wrote that.
Lindsey
Yeah. “No, you really did, Lindsey, you did.” I’m like, “Oh, OK.”
Allison
You do write a lot of books. You’re currently bringing out one every six months or so, from what I can see.
Lindsey
Yeah.
Allison
Do you have a set writing routine? What are your secrets to doing that?
Lindsey
I’m terrible and I always answer, “Just don’t do what I do…”
Allison
That’s been your answer to everything so far, “I’m terrible.”
Lindsey
I mean I must be doing something right.
Allison
Yeah, clearly.
Lindsey
If I knew what it was I would stop the bad stuff.
I’m writing right now. I have another book out in November. I’m working on that right now. Definitely, for me, I just have to clear huge chunks of time and just not leave the house and not find distractions, which I’m so good at, and just sit down and bash it out, because if I take too long on a draft, on a first draft, you can tell. For me, I can see it, because the pacing is off, and the plotting tends to be a bit loose. I kind of — I think the books read very fast, like they read quite quickly.
Allison
They do.
Lindsey
I definitely have to write to that same degree of pace.
Allison
Right.
Lindsey
To get that out.
But, I have other friends who are incredible, who will just say, “I wrote for four hours a day and these are my four hours, and I go and sit at my desk and I do those four hours and then I stop.” I can’t… I don’t finish when it’s tea time.
I recently moved to LA and my boyfriend is out here and he is not enjoying my writing process at all. He will call me and say, “Are you coming over tonight?” I will be like, “Yeah, but like at 9:00,” and he will be like, “It is 9:00.” I’m still in my PJs from the morning. I’m like, “Oh shit. I’m sorry.”
Allison
Oops.
Lindsey
“I’m really supposed to be there now.”
Allison
That’s funny.
Social media is part of this book, Always a Bridesmaid, but it also seems to be a big part of your life. Did you set out to create an author platform? Or has it been organic?
Lindsey
It’s been really organic. I’ve been so lucky with it. I remember Twitter, the first time I even went on Twitter, my Canadian publishers asked me to do a Twitter interview on something, and I’m like, “What is this stuff?” “This is crazy. Why would anyone care about what I’m doing?” And I just didn’t understand it at all. Now, I just can’t come off it.
But, for me, part of it is — I mean it is important, I think it’s where your readers are to a degree, so you should be there. In the olden days it was go and visit book groups and go to bookshops, because that’s where they are. They’re not there now, they’re on Twitter, that’s where you get to them, it’s where you talk to them.
But, for me, it’s very much I work on my own in my apartment and the idea of going to Twitter for me is like going to the kitchen and making coffee or going to the water cooler, you know? Chatting with someone for five minutes, that’s where I go to get my human interaction, which maybe is…
Allison
So you just pop in and out all day? Or how do you —
Lindsey
Exactly. I’m just constantly here, there. People will email me and I feel so bad because I’m so terrible at getting back to emails. Just tweet me, if you want something and you want me to see it, tweet me. I’m much better at that.
Allison
Is Twitter your platform of choice? Is that what you like to do?
Lindsey
I love Twitter.
I love Instagram. I really like looking at other people’s Instagrams. I’m fascinated with what people choose to put out there.
Allison
Yeah.
Lindsey
Instagram is the one thing that I feel so careful about, it’s so edited. It looks like everyone is living a superstar lifestyle if you look at people’s Instagrams. It’s like there’s no pictures of you in your PJs eating your third bowl of Lucky Charms at ten o’clock at night on Instagram, that’s not a thing. And we’re all doing it, so…
Allison
I think as long as we all understand that we’re all doing it, we should be fine.
Lindsey
You have to take it with a grain of salt, but I love Instagram. I’ve just recently started using Periscope, which will be the death of me, which I don’t know if you’ve seen that one. It’s a Twitter app, but it’s live casting.
Allison
Yeah, I have seen it. I think I’m supposed to do something on it next week, so I better find out about it.
Lindsey
I had to do my first one, and then we did that first one on stage, which was a reading of Always a Bridesmaid when that came out, that was planned. And then I drunkenly agreed to do one — I made a bet with someone at my launch party, “I’ll do it when I get home, because I’m not even drunk,” and then… yeah. But, it was fine, because I wasn’t, I was just like getting reading for bed at the hotel. I was like, “Hey you guys…”
Yeah, I think we did one the other day in the hotel where we were in New Castle for the book signing and the hotel was insanely loud and I was with my friend and Periscoped at a ridiculously loud bar with our cocktails.
But, Periscope is amazing, because it is the same, it’s an instant feedback, you know? And you can talk to people while you’re doing it, which is crazy.
Allison
That is crazy. I better get across that.
What tips would you have for a new or aspiring author in the sort of social media area?
Lindsey
I mean definitely get on Twitter, on Facebook, Instagram. A lot of authors have great Tumblrs as well. Giovanna Fletcher has a great Tumblr. See what they’re saying, start communicating with them, start seeing who they’re communicating with, like check out the bloggers, get involved in the community.
It’s a very, very welcoming community. I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone not talk back to me or not chat with me, and I try and chat with everyone that I can. It’s only when I’m working that I’m not on there to reply all the time.
Yeah, I think just definitely get in there and get involved. Don’t be shy.
Allison
Dive in.
Lindsey
Yeah, dive in. Go on for the first couple of days, follow, read, see what’s there to be seen, but then, yeah, get straight in there and start talking to people. It’s a huge resource, it’s a huge resource.
Allison
It is. Huge.
Lastly is a question we ask everybody, your top three tips for writers?
Lindsey
Top three tips for writers… I’m terrible at this also. I’m going to stop saying that I’m terrible — But people are so disappointed because they want me to just tell them this magic source of stories that comes from somewhere.
Allison
The magic bullet, thank you.
Lindsey
The magic story fairies.
To me, it’s just read as much as you can, and as broadly as you can across as many genres, like magazines, websites — I don’t care, just read. Put your eyes on things and see how different people’s voices come together, how different people’s stories come together. Even if you’re planning to write romance there’s something you’ll find in a sci-fi novel that you’ll be like, “Oh, that’s really smart, I could use that.”
Write as much as you can. I would love to say, “Just sit down and write your work,” but I know that can be scary and that first blank page is terrifying. So, maybe start blogging or tweeting, you know, just be writing, so you can be comfortable with the words that are coming out of your head and seeing them.
And, then just listen, just always be listening, because there are stories everywhere. I hear so many people say to me, “I would love to write, but I don’t know what to write about.” And there’s no point in trying to write if you don’t have a story to tell, because every page will be painful. If you’re trying to force something that doesn’t exist, but there are stories in every conversation you have with every human that you interact with, there’s a story. So, always be listening and always be paying attention. I think that’s really important as a writer.
Allison
Fantastic. Those are fantastic tips for someone who says they’re terrible. Thank you very much for those and thank you so much for your time today. It’s been really, really interesting.
Lindsey grew up in the UK, but now calls another two-lettered place her home; LA.
